Justin Vernon just dropped a major behind-the-scenes bomb: some of Taylor Swift’s biggest hits from Folklore and Evermore actually started off as Big Red Machine demos.
In a new chat with Zane Lowe on Apple Music, Vernon, the voice behind Bon Iver and one-half of Big Red Machine alongside The National’s Aaron Dessner, revealed that the bones of songs like “exile” and “evermore” came straight from their indie folk archives.
“Taylor heard it,” Vernon said, giving Swift full credit for hearing the potential. “All the glory goes to Taylor for hearing, as a songwriter, what music she wants to make. But those songs are Big Red Machine demos.”
Swift, known for flipping the industry on its head in 2020 with her surprise indie-folk pivot, took those demos and turned them into Grammy gold. Vernon recalled the moment Dessner reached out about “exile,” saying: “Aaron hits me up and is like, ‘So Bud-o, I think there’s a song that Taylor would like you to sing.’ And I was like, ‘Taylor?’”
He added that it was all incredibly organic. “They sent it, and I ended up adding a couple little bits. I just sang it on an SM7 in my little makeshift studio.”
The collaboration, which also involved Joe Alwyn (credited under the alias William Bowery), led to one of the most haunting duets of Swift’s career, earning critical acclaim and intense fan love.
Vernon was clearly floored watching Swift and Dessner work together. “Her genius was working with the genius of Aaron Dessner on making the strongest set of lyrics and songwriting that she’s ever had, really… It was like watching Taylor enter our universe.”
That universe has expanded fast. After Folklore and Evermore, Swifties began streaming The National, who had largely operated under the indie radar. Matt Berninger featured on Evermore‘s “Coney Island,” and Swift returned the favor by contributing vocals and lyrics to “The Alcott” on The National’s 2023 album First Two Pages of Frankenstein.
The Dessner-Swift synergy has grown into one of modern music’s most unexpectedly fruitful partnerships, bringing together two very different fanbases and bridging pop with indie folk in ways no one saw coming.
So while the world might remember Folklore hit as a Taylor Swift reinvention moment, the story behind it traces back to a Bon Iver studio session, a simple SM7 mic, and a demo folder filled with potential.
And now, fans know: some of Swift’s most raw, poetic work began as quiet musings between Vernon and Dessner, until one superstar stepped in and made them go supernova.
